Religious Affairs Office

Dr Griera, who is one of the leading researchers on religious pluralism in Catalonia, specialises in the field of sociology of religion, religious diversity, and new forms of spirituality. She is a professor at the Autonomous University of Barcelona, and head of the ISOR research group (Research in Sociology of Religion).

We interviewed Maria del Mar Griera during the conference “Religious freedom in Barcelona: state of the issue”,held at the beginning of February last year, at which she gave a talk entitled “Managing religious diversity at local level: legal framework and public policies”. Griera spoke of religion in the local sphere, and the uniqueness of Barcelona in this respect. She described the religious landscape in a globalised world, setting out the dilemmas and challenges faced by public administrations when managing religious diversity. A diversity that adds complexity to an issue that, according to Griera, needs to be addressed calmly and through dialogue, avoiding the inflammatory polemic to which it often leads.

The event was organised by Barcelona City Council’s Office of Religious Affairs. In addition to academics from the field of research such as Griera, numerous religious entities and communities representing the plurality of beliefs within the city took part.

In her talk she spoke of the religious map of Catalonia and Spain. In order to understand the religious landscape in our region, the existing legal framework must be taken into account. What specific characteristics does it have, and on what bases has it been constructed?

According to article 16 of the Spanish Constitution, we live in a state that has no official religion. This means that, in theory, no single religion enjoys a privileged position. At the same time, the Constitution also calls on the public authorities to maintain a cooperative relationship with different religious faiths, specifically mentioning the Catholic Church. Article 16 was the result of an agreement that was negotiated with the aim of obtaining the approval of the Catholic Church at a time of political upheaval. It guarantees religious freedom, but at the same time grants a certain ‘privilege’ to the Church.

Months later, the state signed a cooperation agreement with the Catholic Church that deepened the cooperation between church and state. This agreement was, in theory, to be periodically reviewed, but this has not happened. Furthermore, it has the status of an international treaty (because it was signed with the Vatican), which makes it extremely difficult to modify.

Therefore, could it be said that the idea that ‘no single religion enjoys a privileged position’ is merely superficial, and not a reality that translates into practice?

It is important to be aware that our starting point is a legal framework that assigns a privileged role to the Catholic Church with respect to other religions. In practice, this has an impact on issues such as funding, the role of the Church in the sphere of education, and the fact that all health facilities are required to have a chapel, for example.

Since that time, has there been any progress at state level to mitigate inequalities with regard to minority religions?

Although the treatment of minority religions, especially at state level, is extremely unequal, efforts have been made to achieve a balance. In 1992, state cooperation agreements were signed with representatives of Evangelical, Muslim, and Jewish faiths. They were granted rights such as the teaching of their religion in schools, burial in accordance with their beliefs, and religious guidance in prisons, among others. However, there are other religious groups that were not included in these agreements, such as Mormons, Buddhists and Hindus. These groups do have a recognised special status, but they do not have the same rights as others.

It is also very important to bear in mind that in Catalonia the 2006 Statute of Autonomy governs the management of religious diversity (Article 161). It takes a more pluralistic approach, and at the same time promotes religious freedom.

Given this context, how can a framework of secular coexistence be established in which the existence of a historically dominant Catholic Church does not imply inequalities with regard to religious minorities?

Having this unequal legal framework as a starting point makes it difficult to promote public policies that favour religious diversity. In Barcelona for example, some secular policy proposals clash with current realities, and this leads to a complex situation. However, despite the difficulties, a great deal of progress has been made at the local level, and work is still being done to guarantee the rights of religious minorities. For example, Barcelona City Council has established a protocol aimed at guaranteeing equality of status between faiths with regard to events in public places, and ensuring that people can be buried or mourn their dead in ways that are in keeping with the customs of their own faiths.

Nevertheless, there is still much room for improvement, for example in terms of diversity in school menus, taking into account the different dietary requirements of the different religions, or the problems that some women who wear a hijab face in nursing practice. However, not all religions have the same public status, which means that not all can experience their religious life in a ‘normal’ way.

In order to create a framework of religious freedom, it needs to be possible for the diversity of beliefs to be expressed in the public domain on an equal footing. How can a secular public space be built where all diversity is represented?

Public space must be designed as a space of common coexistence, and coexistence between people of very different beliefs and world views. Religions are moral and cultural systems that have specific requests when it comes to public space, but the uses to which this space is to be put are subject to a process of constant negotiation. And this generates multiple dilemmas in many senses. In Barcelona for example, there is a need to address issues such as: will a nativity scene be displayed in the Plaça de Sant Jaume? Which symbols are religious, and which are cultural? Is it appropriate for the mayor to attend a mass in the Sagrada Familia or to participate in a celebration of the end of Ramadan?

In short, the debate is a very complex and multifaceted one when it comes to defining how the use of public space should be managed in a secular society. For some people, secular implies that the mayor should participate in the religious festivals of all faiths, while others believe that it’s inappropriate for her to attend any event with religious connotations. And then there are those whose views fall somewhere in between.

As in many other domains, a space for debate and for consensus building is needed to deal with this complexity. Where is the management of religious diversity discussed and decided upon in our country?

In Spain there is a specific secretariat for religious affairs and also the Fundación Puralismo y Convivencia (Foundation for Pluralism and Coexistence). In Catalonia we have the General Directorate for Religious Affairs, and Barcelona City Council has an Office for Religious Affairs plus a Commission for Intercultural Dialogue and Religious Pluralism. However, these bodies have a management function, and are not spaces for dialogue. In fact, there are few forums or opportunities for discussing the issue of religion in an open, measured and unhurried manner. This brings us to the main problem: this is a politically awkward debate, and most of the participants prefer not to talk about it, or try to resolve conflicts ‘without any fuss’. The complexity of religion isn’t easy to understand and it’s rarely discussed in political circles.

What do you think it is that makes the initiation of a debate on religious diversity in the political arena such an uncomfortable idea?

It’s a debate that could flare up in ways that might cause concern. On the one hand, there is the presence of the extreme right and their attacks on Islam or on minority faiths, and the existence of Christian religious sectors that at certain times can express strong views and trigger a certain degree of unease. And on the other hand, the left tends to feel uncomfortable talking about religious matters, as they find it hard to understand the importance that religion has for some sectors of society. This discomfort felt by the left in dealing with the question of religion has made it much more difficult to address.

So is there a feeling of tension when religious issues are discussed?

Yes, there are often issues that cause a big stir on Twitter or other social networks. For example, when the pilot project for Islamic teaching in schools began to be implemented, it seemed like the end of the world. Small controversies erupt and then blow out of all proportion on the networks. Instead of this, we should have a measured discussion and create real spaces for dialogue. We should be able to engage in a calm discussion about what role religion should have in schools, whether Ramadan should be made a public holiday, or the role that should be assigned to Jewish, Muslim, and Catholic heritage, for example. Nonetheless, progress has been made in many areas in recent years.

Dialogue and debate on religious diversity requires participation, people who are willing to talk to each other. How can an equitable interfaith dialogue be achieved?

In this regard, the role of minority activists and the Catholic Church in generating networks of knowledge and contact between religions has been extremely important. A key entity has been the UNESCO Association for Interreligious Dialogue (AUDIR). Catalonia has a very important tradition of interfaith dialogue. From grassroots initiatives with few resources, networks have been created that have been key in articulating demands, and in policy implementation. In the long run this favours the implementation of more egalitarian policies, and wider social acceptance.

How are the people who are to represent this religious diversity chosen?

When fostering dialogue, care should be taken to ensure that those chosen as spokespersons are not only the religious leaders, who are often older men who hold privileged positions. What the imam thinks may have nothing at all to do with what a young girl who goes to the mosque thinks, and what the bishop says is unlikely to correspond with the reality of all the Catholics in the area. We need to avoid taking statements made by religious authorities as a reference point.

In Barcelona, this was done very effectively in the wake of the attacks in La Rambla. An interfaith service was held in remembrance of the victims, with young people representing each community. This was the official attempt to present Barcelona as a city characterised by religious diversity, and it was the first step towards generating a new type of ritual. A funeral with all the appearance of a state funeral was also held at the Sagrada Família, which caused controversy.

Another source of controversy is the incompatibility between the right to religious freedom and some fundamental rights, such as those related to gender equality. How should this issue be addressed?

This is the most difficult aspect. Which of these rights should take precedence? There’s no solution to this problem. The best option is to study the context in each case, and negotiate on an individual basis. Rights in the abstract sense are one thing, and on a case-by-case basis they’re something else. We can’t lump them all together, or make sweeping statements, because when you take a closer look at everyday reality, this doesn’t work.

According to data from the Catalan Government’s Barometer on religiosity and the management of religious diversity (2016), today’s young people are increasingly less likely to hold religious beliefs. Of young people aged between 16 and 34, only 35% consider themselves to be Catholic. Is this a threat to the acceptance of diverse beliefs?

Not at all, quite the opposite. Young people in Catalonia have a good knowledge of other religions, much more so than older people. These data are encouraging, and more favourable to religious diversity. Young people are more respectful of different options. Older people grew up in a context in which the Catholic Church was the only church. Now, when there is a protest against the construction of a mosque, we find more older people demonstrating.

What is the current religious map like in our region?

Globalisation has created a new and extremely diverse panorama. Individualism and a certain questioning of established authority has meant that there are an increasing number of religions, and that the ways of experiencing them are also more individualised. Traditional institutions are being questioned. There are now many people who are not religious, but who celebrate spiritual rituals. The percentage of young people who believe in reincarnation, for example, is growing. Buddhism is the fourth religion in Barcelona; it arrived with the hippies in the 1970s, and has continued to grow in strength as a result of immigration from Tibet, China and India, and also because young people have been attracted to it through their interest in meditation. Affiliations, however, have become weaker and more variable. In the past you were either Catholic or atheist; now there are an infinite number of religions, and ways of living these religions.

So does globalisation have a democratising effect in the religious domain? Is it a positive phenomenon in terms of attaining equality in the management of diversity of belief?

Globalisation is very unequal in both social and economic terms. Migrants with other beliefs have arrived in very vulnerable situations. This makes it very difficult for them to open a place of worship, or to conduct a burial in accordance with the conditions stipulated by their religion. The precariousness of their lives makes it difficult for them to live their religion in a dignified way in a space that is not their own. In order to establish a peaceful, enriching coexistence, this must be taken into account and solutions must be found. Many people say that religion generates conflicts, but I think that the root of the conflict lies in inequality, and not in religion.

What are the challenges facing our society if we are aiming to achieve equality in the management of religious diversity?

First of all, we have to break down the links between economic inequality and religious diversity. We need to dignify all religions, and to create spaces where they can meet. Another challenge is how to respond to international conflicts associated with religion in ways that minimise their impact on our region, so we can reduce the risk of violence and discrimination. Thirdly, it is essential to open up the debate on religious issues in a calm and contextualised manner, in order to build a secular state where everyone, regardless of their religion or beliefs, can live together peacefully.

Notes summarising the conference day.